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Thread: Important Fix for Mental Ray for 3ds Max 2018

  1. #1
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    Exclamation Important Fix for Mental Ray for 3ds Max 2018

    NVIDIA has confirmed a critical backwards compatibility issue when loading scenes using certain materials with the Mental Ray for 3ds Max that shipped on May 10, 2017.

    Issue:
    Loading scenes from an earlier 3ds Max version may result in their materials not being recognized in 3ds Max 2018, and scenes saved to an earlier 3ds Max version can also have difficulty with their materials not being recognized in the earlier 3ds Max.

    Fix:
    Uninstall Mental Ray for 3ds Max 2018. Download the new Mental Ray from 3ds Max posted on May 17, 2017 and install it.

    Result:
    3ds Max 2018 will now be backwards compatible with earlier releases, and saving to earlier 3ds Max versions will work fine.

    Temporary Situation:

    3ds Max 2018 scenes edited recently while using the first Mental Ray for 3ds Max will not be compatible with this update. Such files will work correctly with the next Mental Ray for 3ds Max update, scheduled for the week of May 22, 2017.

    If you are in mid-production with Mental Ray within 3ds Max 2018, and all is working well for you, we recommend that you wait for this update and do not uninstall as instructed above.

    We are happy to answer here any questions you may have about this issue.
    Last edited by DavidM; May 17th, 2017 at 21:24.

  2. #2
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    ]Could we get clarification on this statement:"3ds Max 2018 scenes edited recently while using the first Mental Ray for 3ds Max will not be compatible with this update. Such files will work correctly with the next Mental Ray for 3ds Max update, scheduled for the week of May 22, 2017. "

    Thanks for this update first off. But I am not entirely sure how to proceed. I am indeed in the "temporary situation" you mention, where I am in the middle of production, started using Max 2018 with MR, which I'd place in the category of "sort of worked." It gave many warnings and seemed to not be entirely stable. Also, when using this latest version of GI-Next I was getting a lot of odd messages in the log during rendering.

    So the main question is:
    If I install the new point release, and use Max 2018, will I have problems using these files next week when the .02 version comes out?

    Maybe related, maybe not:
    I have two graphics cards installed, the GTX 980ti and the GTX 760. Both show up in the GPU listing for GI-Next, but during rendering I'm getting a message that the 760 doesn't have enough memory. Any idea why that is, an d is there some way to get it to be utilized?

    Thanks again for your help. I've been a long-time user of MR and intend to keep it as my primary renderer, despite also owning a few competing products.
    Last edited by dbowker3d; May 18th, 2017 at 15:30.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbowker3d View Post
    Could we get clarification on this statement:"3ds Max 2018 scenes edited recently while using the first Mental Ray for 3ds Max will not be compatible with this update. Such files will work correctly with the next Mental Ray for 3ds Max update, scheduled for the week of May 22, 2017. "
    Of course. First of all, I'm sorry about the mistake at our end. We had to make some changes in the handling of class IDs in order to allow for thousands of vMaterials, and we inadvertently also changed the class IDs for our other legacy materials, potentially breaking all old scenes.

    Scenes saved with the 1.0 plugin (available between May 5 and May 16) will have the incorrect class IDs for -some- materials. If you stay in 1.0 forever, the scene will be fine, but with these bad IDs, you will have issues going back to 2017 or 2016 or forward to our 1.0.1 build and later.

    1.0.1, released May 17, corrects the forward and backward compatibility issue, but will fail to load some materials saved with the 1.0 version. (We've essentially traded a problem affecting ALL scenes for the same, but smaller problem affecting only this past week's saves.)

    To correct this, we are working on a "fixer" build that reads bad (1.0) IDs and saves them as correct IDs. You would use the "fixer" build to resave your affected scenes and then move forward to 1.0.1. (Again, this would only be some scenes saved with our 1.0 plugin.) Due to the complexity of this "fixer" we are not ready to release it yet.

    An alternate workaround, available immediately, is to manually correct broken materials:
    • Install the current 1.0.1 plugin
    • Load your scene. (You will get Missing DLL errors that you can ignore and continue to load the scene. Also ignore the 3ds Max scene converter options.)
    • Find any objects assigned Missing Material. Rebuild and reassign materials to the affected objects.
    • Save your scene again.

    For some users this may be a trivial task, but for some complex scenes, it may be better to wait for our "fixer" build.

    This was an unfortunate mistake, and we're working to quickly undo the problems for those of you affected by this.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbowker3d View Post
    So the main question is: If I install the new point release, and use Max 2018, will I have problems using these files next week when the .02 version comes out?
    No. We recommend that everyone switch to 1.0.1 as soon as possible to prevent such issues.

    (The other build will not be .0.2, but rather a "fixer" build with a very limited audience and lifespan.)

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidM View Post
    No. We recommend that everyone switch to 1.0.1 as soon as possible to prevent such issues.

    (The other build will not be .0.2, but rather a "fixer" build with a very limited audience and lifespan.)
    Thanks for the clarification.


    [Moderator EDIT: Other topic removed here and posted to new thread.]
    Last edited by DavidM; May 18th, 2017 at 20:30.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidM View Post
    No. We recommend that everyone switch to 1.0.1 as soon as possible to prevent such issues.

    (The other build will not be .0.2, but rather a "fixer" build with a very limited audience and lifespan.)
    Hello there are some news for the new relase ?
    Best regards Mak21

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidM View Post
    NVIDIA has confirmed a critical backwards compatibility issue when loading scenes using certain materials with the Mental Ray for 3ds Max that shipped on May 10, 2017.

    Issue:
    Loading scenes from an earlier 3ds Max version may result in their materials not being recognized in 3ds Max 2018, and scenes saved to an earlier 3ds Max version can also have difficulty with their materials not being recognized in the earlier 3ds Max.
    I am having a serious issue with point clouds not rendering at all in Mental Ray for 3ds Max 2018. I have already posted to Autodesk's site regarding this issue (link below), and it seems I am not the only one.

    I have worked with point clouds for nearly the last 4 years, and never had this much trouble rendering them. Issues my company have had in the past include bugs like the orthographic/perspective issue where it renders from one and not the other (I want to say last time I saw that error was in 2015). My coworker had encountered a similar issue in a past build when he accidentally changed the material on the point cloud object itself. If that material is not compatible with the point cloud, it will still display normally in the viewport, but will not render.

    I am starting to think that this is the case in 2018. Because of the lack of the autodesk point cloud shader, I feel like the point cloud just does not have the required shader information for it to render at all. Could this have just been an over site on Nvidia or Autodesk's part during the transition of Mental Ray? It blows my mind that something like this would happen in the newest and best release, when point clouds have been working spectacularly in the last 4 builds of Max.

    In Autodesk's very own Max 2018 help menu, it references needing the Autodesk Point Cloud shader, which is cannot be found in 2018.
    http://help.autodesk.com/view/3DSMAX...5-361DBFDB5B33
    I have tested a file that works in 2017, brought to 2018 without changing a thing beside making sure it was in mental ray, and no luck.

    I'm going to try reinstalling mental ray for 3ds max, followed by all of 2018 afterwards if nothing changes. I'm going to assume at that point, there will need to be a service pack to re-include that missing Autodesk Point Cloud shader from your end? I see you have already released Mental Ray a couple times in the last 2 weeks, probably feverishly fixing broken legacy materials. This is a very big deal for my company, and we will have to hold off on moving up from 2017 BECAUSE of this issue!

    Autodesk's forum discussing this.
    https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/3ds-m...8/td-p/7102550

    Please get attention to this bug! Thanks, I do appreciate all the work you guys put into these new releases

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomas.owens View Post
    I am having a serious issue with point clouds not rendering at all in Mental Ray for 3ds Max 2018. I have already posted to Autodesk's site regarding this issue (link below), and it seems I am not the only one.

    Please get attention to this bug! Thanks, I do appreciate all the work you guys put into these new releases
    I've posted on both forums as well. No responses. They don't care.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomas.owens View Post
    I am having a serious issue with point clouds not rendering at all in Mental Ray for 3ds Max 2018.
    Do you have a scene for us?

    If it's an issue with a missing mental ray shader then we should be able to fix this.
    If it is an Autodesk decision to remove Point Cloud support from Max 2018 then we cannot do much about this I fear.

    We will find out.

    Best,
    Steve

  10. #10
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    Beyond this initial stop-gap measure, is there any news on future updates? Still seems like things are not quite right with some of the UI issues and other stuff under the hood with MR for Max 2018. It'd also be especially good to hear some longer term plans too.

    As a professional, I suppose I could choose any rendering engine available, though I've got years of assets that all utilize MR rendering and shading technology. So even though MR was built in to Max, I used it because I wanted to and felt it worked better than the other products out on the market. For collaboration and some stock model buying I also own a license of VRay and I have to say, I'm not a big fan.

    They do a few things right, esp. in terms of how their VRay Proxy system works. Much more straightforward and efficient than XREF or MR Proxy systems work, at least in my experience. But their system for lighting and shaders? Meh. So many details that tie together quality vs. speed make no real sense at all. And getting predictable setups? I feel like at this point they have 2-3 systems on top of each other! Some tiny settings make a huge difference in how a shot looks, and yet others seem to not change anything at all. The shaders are also all over the place and again, materials from one version to the next hardly even work together! Yet: I can pull up a Mental Ray custom Material Library from eight years ago and it will work exactly like it did the day I designed it. Ditto for lights and other rendering settings.

    So yeah, I'll be near the front of the line to buy my professional license, but before I do, I need the assurance that things will continue to move forward a ways into the future. Not just development, but documentation and support from other 3rd parties like commercial rendering services, plugins like RailClone, etc.

    For Example: For shorter animation sequences I have a small in-house farm, but for longer ones I use RebusFarm. They have been great for the most part, but when I asked a couple of weeks ago, they had yet to install MR for Max 2018 onto their farm. They said it was partly due to low customer demand. OK, so for now I can keep using Max 2017 for such work, but maybe a little advocacy from Nvidia would get them to change their minds. And for sure more definite stance on future development wouldn't hurt either.

    Here's hoping you guys have some great things planned for the future. I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd like to hear a little more.

    Doug Bowker


    Animation • Video • Motion Graphics
    www.douglasbowker-motiongraphics.com

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