View Poll Results: What is the major geometry type that you use?

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  • subdivision surfaces

    22 23.40%
  • nurb surfaces

    2 2.13%
  • polygons

    69 73.40%
  • hair

    1 1.06%
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Thread: Displacement and Geometry Type Usage

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    Default Displacement and Geometry Type Usage

    We're trying to track the current production trends, and would love your input with regard to the amount of work done by your company in the various types of geometry and how much displacement.

    For example, what percentage of your typical scene is:
    - subds nondisplaced
    - subds displaced
    - nurbs nondisplaced
    - nurbs displaced
    - polys nondisplaced
    - polys displaced
    - hair

    Please also add relevant information about the kind of production you do, ie VFX, feature animation, film/TV/web, commercials, games, architectural rendering, industrial/automotive design, ...

    I'm also trying out the quick poll feature of the forum for the first time.
    Barton Gawboy

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
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    Hungary
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    Default Geometry types at digic

    High end game cinematics and VFX.

    Most of our geometry is either displaced subdivision surface or non-displaced polygons. The ratio depends a lot on the "style" of the work and the complexity of shots: the amount of displaced geometry is usually limited by memory issues in our current animations.

    Had quite a few problems with displacing polygons (cracks appeared even on static objects with smooth normals) and haven't rendered nurbs surfaces in years.
    And - although its hard to compare the amount of hair geometry to the rest of the scene - most of our projects did require some form of hair rendering.

    Cheers,
    Szabolcs

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
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    25

    Default

    This poll is useless. Only a single geometry type can be chosen so hair will never get chosen.

  4. #4
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    Default

    If a small number of unrepresentative folks respond, it is useless. Maybe I chose poor wording. But, if you can, please answer the poll. For example, what percentage of geometry used is hair? For all of the work you do, what is the most used geometry type?

    The information helps to prioritize. I like collecting information from the users rather than using guesses (or anecdotal hearsay) to prioritize.
    Barton Gawboy

  5. #5
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    Default

    In particular, there is a question as to how much NURBs are used in production. And I assume they are still used most in design. If you don't like the exact wording of the poll. Please give your response more accurately reflecting geometry usage in a post here.
    Barton Gawboy

  6. #6
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    Default

    Here's another example.

    We don't see much request for enhancements of hierarchical subdivision surfaces. mental ray now supports ccmeshes which are not hierarchical, so based on demand much of the work goes into those.

    On the other hand, I personally don't think the 3D vendors support good artist "workflow" with hierarchical subds, and most certainly, they don't translate them to the renderer in hierarchical form. So, I'm not sure our data is accurate because their envisioned use has never been fulfilled. [Disclaimer: That last statement is obviously my opinion, not that of my or any company.]
    Barton Gawboy

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
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    Budapest, Hungary
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bart
    Here's another example.

    We don't see much request for enhancements of hierarchical subdivision surfaces. mental ray now supports ccmeshes which are not hierarchical, so based on demand much of the work goes into those.

    On the other hand, I personally don't think the 3D vendors support good artist "workflow" with hierarchical subds, and most certainly, they don't translate them to the renderer in hierarchical form. So, I'm not sure our data is accurate because their envisioned use has never been fulfilled...]
    I agree with You.
    Hierarchical subD's are not well implemented in any 3D app. Their usage is very limited: tools for interacitive modelling are not developed, texturing is even lamer.
    So (I talk about commercials and game cinematics), the best workflow is stil to stick to polys and maybe convert them to subD's at render time.
    "Maybe", because there are still some problems in different apps trnasfering UV data corrctly from polygons to subD's.
    That being said, company that evolves better modelling/texturing tools for hierarchical subD's, and port them to major 3D apps might have successfull financing in near future.

  8. #8
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    Default

    Quite a few of my coworkers still prefer NURBS for some tasks. Their background is either character or environment modeling. Needless to say it is usually film work for the likes of Disney, Sony Imageworks, Dreamworks, etc. instead of games.

    I know Renderman docs also preach the love of NURBS and SubDs because of how it dices the surface. Also because of the previously mentioned issue with displaced polygons coming apart. Some other studios that use their own renderer also stick with those types. So in some instances it's based on the needs of the renderer as opposed to 'preferred workflow' of the artist. I want to say Blue Sky's renderer used to only take NURBS. I am not sure if that is correct.

    Personally I'm lazy about UV mapping so I use NURBS and convert at a later time if it becomes necessary. But I mix both depending on what I need. I won't extrude a 5000 poly coiled rope when I can just use NURBS and that also gives my video card a breather as opposed to adding faces galore and hiding them, unhiding, going for a drink, coming back. . .is it displayed yet? And I hate stitching in Maya so I go with poly or SubD for characters.

    As with any project I think it's best to choose a surface based on its use in the scene as long as the output doesn't care. I would like Autodesk to get on the ball with supporting ccmeshes and partial creases on SubDs for mental ray in Maya.

    Does that make sense or am I babbling again?
    "Don't argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you over the head with experience."

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
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    25

    Default Re: Displacement and Geometry Type Usage

    Quote Originally Posted by bart
    If a small number of unrepresentative folks respond, it is useless.
    No. It will remain useless regardless of the number of people because only a SINGLE geometry type is allowed to be chosen. NOONE renders hair as their only (or primary) geometry type, but in production it is likely to be the second most used geometry type.
    A proper poll would involve giving POINTS to each geometry type (from a total of 10 or 100). Also, if you want to know about displacement, this poll does not consider that at all.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    35

    Default Re: Displacement and Geometry Type Usage

    i voted nurbs, we are a v small stills company and nurbs is what we learnt back in the day in power animator. a few polys here and there but our preferred choice for accurate product modeling is nurbs. used to love the maya advanced tesselation for nurbs before mrfm was the renderer to use. we ocasionally get nurbs cad data from manufacturer which is nice but more and more we get clunkyly converted polymodels from original nurbs data which are awfull.

    Have a little trouble with winging the tesselation with massive nurbs models when u cant really see it easly in view port. complex trim curves and bref nurbs data can sometimes split with mr arpoximations,


    anyway my 2p


    cheers


    matt



    edit: oh forgot to say that i love mr displacement aprox use it when we can, however on winxp 32bit with 3gb boot.ini mem can be an issue sometimes, usually batch render frees up some space and the new fb virtual swtich helps tooo

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